"ClassicDatsunDebate" (gmagnusson)
11/02/2020 at 12:42 • Filed to: None
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"ClassicDatsunDebate" (gmagnusson)
11/02/2020 at 12:42 • Filed to: None | 1
| 37 |
Stef did a great write-up on the eCrate Kit on The Drive and I haven’t seen much discussion about the eCrate kit here on Oppo...
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So here’s the question; What would you EV?
My ideal eCrate conversion for a local daily/grocery getter:
CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 12:44 |
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I think EV is the eventual goal for my Truck. I’d love to take the 225 out and make it into a display. That engine has powered so much of my life.
Bandit
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 12:49 |
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I would totally convert the TA to EV. But I want the motor/controller assembly to fit in the space of a SBC and the batteries to fit in the space of a gas tank and trunk.
HammerheadFistpunch
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 12:56 |
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If I had money for an EV toy I would 100% EV a land cruiser. Not sure which one. probably a 55 because I love them and the extra weight isn’t going to be a big deal for the iron pig.
The trouble is that they are 100% toys. The battery density is so poor compared to gasoline that even though electric motors are crazy efficient with it, the inefficiencies of an old car cancel it out.
A 60 kwh battery is about 2 gallons of gas. If your car got, in my case, 12 mpg with a gas engine and sucked up about 40% of the power in losses even if an electric motor had 95% efficiency, its just not going to matter in terms of range. Were talking 1 kwh/mile in city driving at best. giving me 60 miles of range. Plenty for a toy, but not much else. Even doubling the battery doesn’t give me a usable range outside the city. This is why Electric boats aren’t really a thing still (there are a few, but very few fast ones).
atfsgeoff
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 12:58 |
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I could see myself going electric in my truck, as I rarely drive further than 100 miles away with it.
SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 12:58 |
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As I posted over there, it’s a little hard to see how this makes economic sense. Just the 60KW-hour battery pack’s gonna cost over $15K...
And it’s far from clear how you get heaters and defrosters out of it.
Jon Ward will do a few and sell them to the same crowd buying $250K FJ80s with LS3s and nice trim— but it will be quite awhile before this can make economic sense for a D/D.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
11/02/2020 at 13:00 |
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Until battery density is about 3x better, these will never be practical. Then at least you could put in 120 kwh of battery and get back 300 miles of range on an old power sucker.
Boxer_4
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 13:02 |
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I understand why GM is doing this, but I just can’t get excited for it. The engine (its mechanical nature, sounds, and in some cases smells) is an integral part of the experience in a lot of cars in my opinion.
I’d rather get a modern electric if I’m forced to and keep the classics and future classics as intended.
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> Bandit
11/02/2020 at 13:02 |
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I think you got 1 out of the two so far. They say they are coming up with new battery configurations. The existing Boly battery is based on a skateboard arrangement but a brick battery that fits in the spot of a fuel tank would be very cool. I would say the weight would be an issue...existing tank strap points in a TA or most other cars wouldn’t be up to the task of supporting a battery.
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
11/02/2020 at 13:03 |
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That 225 will run until the pistons are wearing through the sides of the block.
promoted by the color red
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 13:09 |
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I really think a Volvo 240 wagon with an EV power unit would be neat, especially if I could put on the HD springs and Bilstein suspension. We can side-step the temperamental K-Jet and the weak M46 transmission yet keep the low-end torque and simple maintenance, plus the mid-sized wagon body and 13-gal tank translates into plentiful battery space.
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Bandit
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 13:16 |
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I imagine you are correct. 21 g allons of gas is 170lbs, add 20lbs or so of steel fuel tank. I imagine for 200lbs you could have a decent amount of batteries, though I have no idea what the Bolt’s power density is these days . More if you make the EV motor remote and fill the transmission/driveshaft tunnel with more batteries. No matter what it will be an exciting future if this sort of swap takes off.
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SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> Bandit
11/02/2020 at 13:23 |
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Tesla’s 85 KW-hour still weighs about 1300 pounds.
Even the LEAF pack (which is 1/3 the capacity) is an oddball shape and hundreds of pounds.
404 - User No Longer Available
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 13:25 |
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That actually sounds like a nice upgrade path for my Solstice when the Ecotec dies, considering many LS swaps have been done on the Kappa platform. Would bring me from 177hp/184lb-ft. Not as much HP as a supercharger/V8 but the torque upgrade would be very welcome.
Now if only I can get it to work with the Aisin AR5...
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SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/02/2020 at 13:28 |
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This EXACTLY the issue. It turns the resultant product into a toy. We all like toys but an off-road truck, with limited range, no ability to pack jerry cans, and an absence of refueling options? Becomes an in-town look-at-me toy... not a practical daily driver, not a practical off-road truck.
I’ve got a 912 that needs a motor, so have given it a lot of thought. But it ends up being very expensive, and much less practical, than simply fixing the motor.
I figure J Ward will do a few of these conversions, in current form, but it makes for a pretty impractical vehicle.
Mark Tucker
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 13:33 |
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(looks at old Forest Service truck with noisy old 4.3 V6...)
Nah.
Not
yet,
anyway.
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
11/02/2020 at 14:04 |
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I had thought about a different engine for the M37, but I don’t know what kind of range a 6000lb truck can get with this, the bed might be filled with two of those battery packs.
Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 14:07 |
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The ultimate F U! #neverforget
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SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/02/2020 at 14:20 |
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A Model 3 gets a lot done on 85KW-hour, no question, but yeah it’s about 300% too heavy and too bulky. I don’t know that “exact parity” (versus engine+transmission+poly_tank+fuel) is required, but it’s nowhere close right now .
I think you’ll have trickle-down on fuel cells from heavy trucking inside of 8-10 years, so you’ll likely have more options to pick from by 2030.
I’d expected mor e from “Battery Day”... .like a halving of weight, doubling of density, but it was a wash-out. I think we’re going to have to get used to 4% per year being the figure of merit on batteries.
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
11/02/2020 at 15:45 |
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Ha! Is there still one sitting in an Arizona underground parking lot??
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Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 15:53 |
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This one? I dunno.
I’d love for someone to
find one and restomod it. Sweet Sweet Revenge against GM.
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
11/02/2020 at 18:00 |
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Yeah that’s the one. Atl not AZ. Would be sweet
WiscoProud
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 18:01 |
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Its interesting that they’re using a 4-speed auto, and normal axles. I presume theres a transfer case in there as well, as they tried to keep it as stock as possible. So, although the motor only has 266ft-lbs, it will be able to benefit from the gearing. I’d like to know what the mechanical advantage can get them. The hummer was throwing out huge numbers like 11,500 ft-lbs, but my 16 year old land cruiser can do more than that in 1st gear and 4lo.
RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 18:18 |
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...and the range is...?
Stef Schrader
> Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
11/02/2020 at 18:27 |
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NEVER FORGET
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> Stef Schrader
11/02/2020 at 19:38 |
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Ed Begley Jr rolling in his grave
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/02/2020 at 19:39 |
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You and your ‘details’
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 20:13 |
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I’m legitimately curious! I’m not big on EV swaps to classics (depending) because I think it kills a lot of the character of said classic, in my eyes. BUT, if I were going to do one, I’d at least like it to have vaguely similar range to what the original vehicle had....and considering the Blazer wasn’t super light...I am betting the range is not exactly amazing...
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/02/2020 at 20:34 |
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It’s, what, twice as heavy as a Bolt? So Bolt Range/2 ? Maybe it’s more than a linear relationship.
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/02/2020 at 21:20 |
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Yeah, hard to say, but the Bolt’s range is around 410kms, so 205km isn’t a huge amount of range for a classic off-roady pickup.....that limits you to some pretty close-to-home and minimal off-roading...
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ClassicDatsunDebate
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/02/2020 at 21:32 |
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Suffice to say it’s a proof of concept at this point but it’s a big step forward to have an OEM crate kit . It will lead to refinements and upgrades.
gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/02/2020 at 23:06 |
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I have my suspicions that folks dropping 20k into this into a restomod are taking it offroad, but what do I know
Jim Spanfeller
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/03/2020 at 01:37 |
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I would swap it into a truck, because EV trucks are the only EVs I like, and I’m not worried about loss of character in a truck because for whatever reason, engine note isn’t as important to me when it comes to trucks.
Classic car EV conversions, on the other hand, are a sin and should not exist.
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Jim Spanfeller
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/03/2020 at 01:45 |
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I agree with you on EV classic cars. Except trucks, trucks I have no qualms with EV- swapping. I would drive the heck out of a lifted EV classic truck, and derive joy from the fact that my electric drivetrain exempts me from being labeled as a truck bro. At least, I think that’s how it works. My other options ( steam, nuclear, gerbil wheel , etc.) are probably too difficult to convert to, so electric it is! And, you know, electric just seems perfect for trucks in every respect except maybe range.
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> ClassicDatsunDebate
11/03/2020 at 06:25 |
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True! There is a company in the UK that’s got a sortof ‘crate’ EV swap motor to....they do it for classic cars....can’t remember their name though?
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
11/03/2020 at 07:15 |
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True...
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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/03/2020 at 08:27 |
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Meant “are not taking”
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
11/03/2020 at 13:29 |
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No worries, I knew what you meant!